With the hatred and destruction of humane values happening in the presidency right now, it's tempting to get cynical or give up. I love this reminder that empathy can save us.
Thank you so much for reading this post and for truly getting its message. We need empathy so much right now. It's the path that will light us back to our humanity.
I grew up tending to empathize much more with others than with myself. I think this came partly from being raised Catholic--and female. I thought ignoring my own pain and needs and turning my sympathy towards others was the most direct path to being a "good person." Instead, I ended up feeling like a wounded, misunderstood, left out, disgruntled person, and my empathy towards others lacked depth. I guess you could call this "the darker side of empathy." Once I began to practice empathy first and foremost on myself, which I'd previously believed was selfish, I grew more capacity and energy for being truly compassionate and present for others. I also felt a lot wholer and happier. I'm glad you had a joyful eve of your brother's anniversary, Lisa, and that the laughter carried you through to a tender walk with his essence along the San Francisco Bay. Belly laughter with others is a great way to relish empathy! And I'm sure that getting all jellied and loose from laughing that hard helps to let the tenderness--and empathy for self--come in.
Katie, I'm always blown away by the beauty of everything you write. Your sentences are so gorgeous! Thank you for sharing your experiences with the dark side of empathy. Growing up with narcissistic abuse and Catholic guilt caused me to over-empathize with others, especially those who behaved poorly, and shut down my own needs. Like you said, true compassion comes from loving and empathizing with ourselves first and then others. We need a lot of self-compassion right now. Those belly laughs were huge heart openers for me. Spending time with my joy made the heartache more bearable.
Your story reminds me that grief never ends, no matter how much time has passed, and how important it is to find people who understand and can empathize with your grief. I've heard you talk about your brother and his suicide on your podcasts, but when I saw the picture of you and him, I felt a stab of sadness in my heart. I'm so sorry you lost him.
Thank you so much, Doreen, for honoring my grief and for your kind words. Grief can feel so timeless sometimes. But the pain is welcome. It's a reminder of the love we shared, and that is precious.
In writing about my marriage, I kept asking myself "Why?" Why didn't I object to That? Why didn't I get angry at That? Why did I accept That? I found that my marriage (from my POV) was based on my knee-jerk reaction to not make HIM angry. Why? I believed I couldn't support myself and my child without him. Also, apparently, he frequently manipulated me by threatening to go to another woman. Many times the answer to "Why?" was painful ... and always illuminating! I would grieve and was then able to compassion myself for who I was in my 20s.
Grief, which requires self-compassion and self-empathy, is often the gateway to clear sight. I'm glad you gave yourself those gifts and that they allowed you to see this relationship so clearly and love that young woman you were.
I really appreciate this topic and the chance you gave me to think about through your writing. I was trained as a counselor many years ago and spent my career working with school students and school counselors. Expressing empathy was do important to my professional work and to my role as a mother. But I do think people can have too much empathy. My adult daughter was diagnosed with a rare, serious cancer 3 years ago. She made it through a year if traumatic treatment and as been cancer free since. (Yea!!) But she also regularly reads the cancer stories of other young adults and texts with a network of young cancer survivors. At times this is very good because it provides her with support, and she can give support in return. But when one of these people has a recurrence or their cancer spreads ot someone dies, my daughter takes it all very much to heart. Her pre-existing anxiety disorder worsens, and she finds it hard to cope with the uncertainly that a cancer diagnosis and treatment brings. I am so happy that she "feels" for other people, but I wish there was an easy way for her to tell when she is "feeling" too much.
BTW, There is a Caring Bridge for my daughter, and I had one 10 years ago when I was diagnosed with and treated for breast cancer. They are invaluable!
I remember having that talk with my 23 year old daughter, asking whether we were going to wait for her to get better (something it was pretty clear to me wasn't going to happen) or were we going to live. We LIVED. and I'm grateful.
So glad to hear to hear about belly laughter and the delicious gf cookie from San Francisco.
Really interesting question about the dark side of empathy. I find myself thinking about what groups of folks I can empathize with and which ones I will not. Growing up as a little girl, I think my human capacity for empathy was weaponized to keep me silent. But I'm an adult now - would extending empathy for those whose unrelenting thirst for power is threatening me make it harder to resist them? Or would it make me stronger in my resistance? I admit I have been afraid to try it. I have clung to animosity and disgust (both justified for sure) as a tool to override my fear.
Thanks for sharing your story, Jupiter Leone. So many of us had empathy weaponized against us. It cuts us off from ourselves and has long-lasting impacts on our lives. I think we have to protect ourselves first, something Dr. Ramani Durvasula talked about when I interviewed her for the Writing Your Resilience podcast. (Here's a link to our interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGEVfpp0gIg) If you haven't had a chance to read her book It's Not You: Identifying and Healing from Narcissistic People, I highly recommend it. I'm currently taking her advice and trying to apply it to what I learned from Brene Brown when I studied with her in 2015: Compassion comes from seeing that someone did their best and sometimes their best harmful or unhelpful. Thanks again for sharing and continuing this conversation!
With the hatred and destruction of humane values happening in the presidency right now, it's tempting to get cynical or give up. I love this reminder that empathy can save us.
Thank you so much for reading this post and for truly getting its message. We need empathy so much right now. It's the path that will light us back to our humanity.
I grew up tending to empathize much more with others than with myself. I think this came partly from being raised Catholic--and female. I thought ignoring my own pain and needs and turning my sympathy towards others was the most direct path to being a "good person." Instead, I ended up feeling like a wounded, misunderstood, left out, disgruntled person, and my empathy towards others lacked depth. I guess you could call this "the darker side of empathy." Once I began to practice empathy first and foremost on myself, which I'd previously believed was selfish, I grew more capacity and energy for being truly compassionate and present for others. I also felt a lot wholer and happier. I'm glad you had a joyful eve of your brother's anniversary, Lisa, and that the laughter carried you through to a tender walk with his essence along the San Francisco Bay. Belly laughter with others is a great way to relish empathy! And I'm sure that getting all jellied and loose from laughing that hard helps to let the tenderness--and empathy for self--come in.
Katie, I'm always blown away by the beauty of everything you write. Your sentences are so gorgeous! Thank you for sharing your experiences with the dark side of empathy. Growing up with narcissistic abuse and Catholic guilt caused me to over-empathize with others, especially those who behaved poorly, and shut down my own needs. Like you said, true compassion comes from loving and empathizing with ourselves first and then others. We need a lot of self-compassion right now. Those belly laughs were huge heart openers for me. Spending time with my joy made the heartache more bearable.
Your story reminds me that grief never ends, no matter how much time has passed, and how important it is to find people who understand and can empathize with your grief. I've heard you talk about your brother and his suicide on your podcasts, but when I saw the picture of you and him, I felt a stab of sadness in my heart. I'm so sorry you lost him.
Thank you so much, Doreen, for honoring my grief and for your kind words. Grief can feel so timeless sometimes. But the pain is welcome. It's a reminder of the love we shared, and that is precious.
Yes, it is very precious.
In writing about my marriage, I kept asking myself "Why?" Why didn't I object to That? Why didn't I get angry at That? Why did I accept That? I found that my marriage (from my POV) was based on my knee-jerk reaction to not make HIM angry. Why? I believed I couldn't support myself and my child without him. Also, apparently, he frequently manipulated me by threatening to go to another woman. Many times the answer to "Why?" was painful ... and always illuminating! I would grieve and was then able to compassion myself for who I was in my 20s.
Grief, which requires self-compassion and self-empathy, is often the gateway to clear sight. I'm glad you gave yourself those gifts and that they allowed you to see this relationship so clearly and love that young woman you were.
I really appreciate this topic and the chance you gave me to think about through your writing. I was trained as a counselor many years ago and spent my career working with school students and school counselors. Expressing empathy was do important to my professional work and to my role as a mother. But I do think people can have too much empathy. My adult daughter was diagnosed with a rare, serious cancer 3 years ago. She made it through a year if traumatic treatment and as been cancer free since. (Yea!!) But she also regularly reads the cancer stories of other young adults and texts with a network of young cancer survivors. At times this is very good because it provides her with support, and she can give support in return. But when one of these people has a recurrence or their cancer spreads ot someone dies, my daughter takes it all very much to heart. Her pre-existing anxiety disorder worsens, and she finds it hard to cope with the uncertainly that a cancer diagnosis and treatment brings. I am so happy that she "feels" for other people, but I wish there was an easy way for her to tell when she is "feeling" too much.
Thank you for sharing this with all of us, Kathy. I'm so glad your daughter is healthy and able to support others. But as you said, that support can be a double-edged sword, especially in places like cancer communities where illnesses can reoccur. It sounds like she's struggling with compassion fatigue. While this is common with therapists, counselors and others in caregiving roles, anyone who's offering support in a tender area can experience it. Here's a link with more information: https://www.caringbridge.org/resources/how-to-deal-with-compassion-fatigue?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzba9BhBhEiwA7glbagHp_mQBZFAi6DPbBQVBOoBtwxcTClKKKP9AhSBVVHYTWEenEqXI8RoCaakQAvD_BwE
BTW, There is a Caring Bridge for my daughter, and I had one 10 years ago when I was diagnosed with and treated for breast cancer. They are invaluable!
Caring Bridge is such a wonderful asset! I'm so glad you have it. What an invaluable asset.
Thanks, Lisa, I appreciate the resource.
Remind your daughter that she is LIVING with cancer. Not currently or yet Dying of Cancer.
I remember having that talk with my 23 year old daughter, asking whether we were going to wait for her to get better (something it was pretty clear to me wasn't going to happen) or were we going to live. We LIVED. and I'm grateful.
I'm grateful you lived too.
Good point
So glad to hear to hear about belly laughter and the delicious gf cookie from San Francisco.
Really interesting question about the dark side of empathy. I find myself thinking about what groups of folks I can empathize with and which ones I will not. Growing up as a little girl, I think my human capacity for empathy was weaponized to keep me silent. But I'm an adult now - would extending empathy for those whose unrelenting thirst for power is threatening me make it harder to resist them? Or would it make me stronger in my resistance? I admit I have been afraid to try it. I have clung to animosity and disgust (both justified for sure) as a tool to override my fear.
Thanks for sharing your story, Jupiter Leone. So many of us had empathy weaponized against us. It cuts us off from ourselves and has long-lasting impacts on our lives. I think we have to protect ourselves first, something Dr. Ramani Durvasula talked about when I interviewed her for the Writing Your Resilience podcast. (Here's a link to our interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGEVfpp0gIg) If you haven't had a chance to read her book It's Not You: Identifying and Healing from Narcissistic People, I highly recommend it. I'm currently taking her advice and trying to apply it to what I learned from Brene Brown when I studied with her in 2015: Compassion comes from seeing that someone did their best and sometimes their best harmful or unhelpful. Thanks again for sharing and continuing this conversation!